Big fight over which Romance language is closest to Latin
Sunday, November 23, 2008
This isn't really recent news, but there's a really long thread here on Unilang about which Romance language is closest to Latin that goes on for quite a few pages if you like reading long forum threads like I do. I agree most with the person that says that it doesn't really matter because the modern Romance languages are all closer to each other than they are to classical Latin. The lack of articles and the case system in the original Latin alone make it feel more like Turkish to me than a Romance language. Not exactly the same of course (or even close to it), but sometimes they feel very similar.
Two examples:
Tibi aquam dó - Sana su(yu) veriyorum. (I give you water / the water)
In ínsulá nostrá silvae sunt. - Adamızda ormanlar var. (There are forests in our island)
10 comments:
I think it would make more sense to ask which modern Romance language (including the "dialects" [actually languages] that still survive in many Italian regions) would be the closest to vulgar Latin as spoken at the "better" phase of the ancient Rome civilization.
I doubt it is Italian. First because Italian is not a language from Rome city, but from Florence. Second because dialects that are spoken in more urban areas and bigger cities tend to change faster than dialects that are spoken in rural, peripheral areas. Compare for instance Brazilian Portuguese (as spoken in the Northeastern rural regions) with European Portuguese as spoken in Lisbon; BP would be closer to Camões' speech than EP in both grammar and pronunciation. Compare also Ladino and Madrid Spanish wrt ancient Spanish; Ladino is closer.
So I would not be surprised if they discovered that the closest language to ancient vulgar Latin are Spanish or Portuguese, since Iberia is one of the most peripheral regions wrt to the administrative center of ancient Rome. Anyway, I would like to know the real answer, just to satisfy my intellectual curiosity. What is your educated opinion? :)
When we were taught Galician at school (closedly related to Portuguese at it is) we were often told that thislanguage was among the closest to Latin, as well as Italian was.
Now, I think it all depends how you measure this ... and all this fighting is quite pointless, sometimes just plain childish: Is it like "my" language better than "yours" because it is closer to Latin? Nonsense.
Anyway, as you may now, more modern approaches claim that romance languages might not be related to Latin at all ...
Well, here's my uneducated opinion:
I've always thought that Occitan looked the closest to Interlingua so if I had to pick one, I suppose that would be it:
http://oc.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mart_(planeta)#Caracteristicas_generalas
I can also see the reason behind trying to claim one's own language as the closest to Latin, considering that it was *the* language of Europe for some 20+ centuries and everybody wants to feel like an important part of history.
That's one other reason why I think Interlingua is best with the hic, etiam and all the rest as opposed to aqui etc. because I suspect those outside of North America may not appreciate just how much people there love Latin, even if (actually, probably because) they don't know it very well at all. Spanish for a lot of people = a language for less wealthy immigrants, whereas Latin = Gregorian Chant, old texts on parchment and mysticism. IMO the marketing appeal is much more worth it than a slight better recognition at first sight by Romance language speakers.
To Septem Trionis: yes, I had a post up on a book by a French author about that same subject, where he believes that Latin was the written language and Italian the spoken language in Rome, and that there never was any such thing as Vulgar Latin.
How about Catalan? I studied Latin in high school and later lived in Barcelona. The resemblance seems impressive. Nackie
I think that romanian is grammatically closest to latin .but this is only my opinion:you can agree or disagree.This is my translation.. "Tibi aquam dó is" incorrect "Do tibi aquam" (bibere) is correct and in Romanian the translation is. "Iti dau apa" (sa bei).
In ínsulá nostrá silvae sunt.is correct - Adamızda ormanlar var. (There are forests in our island). Romanian translation "In insula noastra sunt paduri"
Excuse me, "anonymous", but you are wrong.
"Tibi aquam do" is correct, while "do tibi aquam" is not a very Latin syntax. And "do tibi aquam bibere" is not Latin.
Please take some lessons in Latin before criticizing...
.ok I will do that.i`m not very good at grammar.my mistake. so the first sentence is correct "Tibi aquam do" can be translated "tie apa iti dau" . "Tie(tibi) apa(aqua) iti(a combination of 1st person and 2nd person i don`t know) dau(do)". also another romanian form of the sentence is. "iti dau apa",
How about Catalan? I studied Latin in high school and later lived in Barcelona. The resemblance seems impressive. Nackie
Excuse me, "anonymous", but you are wrong.
"Tibi aquam do" is correct, while "do tibi aquam" is not a very Latin syntax. And "do tibi aquam bibere" is not Latin.
Please take some lessons in Latin before criticizing...
.ok I will do that.i`m not very good at grammar.my mistake. so the first sentence is correct "Tibi aquam do" can be translated "tie apa iti dau" . "Tie(tibi) apa(aqua) iti(a combination of 1st person and 2nd person i don`t know) dau(do)". also another romanian form of the sentence is. "iti dau apa",
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