Can Norwegians understand Icelandic?

Friday, February 06, 2009

North Germanic languages.

A lot of people make their way to this blog using that exact search term, and since there doesn't seem to be anything on the Internet devoted to that subject alone, I'll see what I can do. Hopefully a lot of people who know more than I do on the subject will add comments to the post afterward to make it even more helpful.

The short answer is: no. Norwegians can't just up and understand Icelandic. Icelandic is quite different in structure from the three Scandinavian languages Norwegian, Swedish and Danish, with a case system more like German or Latin, more complex verb conjugation depending on person, it retains the th sound (both voiced and unvoiced, just like English) and apparently has a ton of irregularities. Adding to that, its much smaller population and geographic isolation mean that people outside of the country don't get to hear it spoken very much either.

That being said, Icelandic is much easier for Norwegians and other Scandinavians to learn than your average English/Spanish/English-and-Spanish/etc. speaker. Knowing Norwegian and then going on to Icelandic is a bit like knowing French and then going on to Latin in that you'll find a lot of similarities in vocabulary that make your knowledge of French quite useful, but in having to master a quite different grammar it's not all that much help and you're still going to have to spend quite a bit of time with that.

It also worth remembering that Nynorsk in general and a number of western Norwegian dialects are closer to Icelandic than Bokmål. Nynorsk for example writes the word "what" as "kva" instead of "hva" (h is silent) in Bokmål, and in Icelandic this is written hvað, but pronounced kvath (th as in that, not think). Apparently some of the western dialects retain more of a case system as well.

The Icelandic Wikipedia has a few examples of these:

(B = Bokmål, N = Nynorsk, Í = Icelandic)
(I come from Norway)
B: Jeg kommer fra Norge
N: Eg kjem frå Noreg.
Í: Ég kem frá Noregi

(What's his name?)
B: Hva heter han?
N: Kva heiter han?
Í: Hvað heitir hann?

(This is a horse)
B: Dette er en hest.
N: Dette er ein hest.
Í: Þetta er hestur.

(The rainbow has many colours)
B: Regnbuen har mange farger.
N: Regnbogen har mange leter/fargar.
Í: Regnboginn hefur marga liti.

The closest language to Icelandic is Faroese, but since Faroese is spoken by even less people than Icelandic and doesn't have the simpler grammar that the three major Scandinavian languages have, it's not really a language you'd want to put any time into unless you were interested in Faroese itself or had family or a house in Tórshavn or some other situation that let you learn it for free or something close to it.

Speaking from personal experience, as a person that can generally make my way through something written in Norwegian without too much trouble, I can definitely understand more written Icelandic than if I had never studied it in the first place, but understanding the whole meaning of the text is beyond me. Taking a look at this page for example written about fish:

Fiskar eru hryggdýr sem dvelja í vatni og anda með tálknum. Flestir fiskar eru með kalt blóð, en sumar tegundir háfiska og túnfiska eru með heitt blóð. Af fiskum finnast yfir 29.000 tegundir, svo þeir eru fjölbreyttasti hópur hryggdýra.
fiskar looks like fisker (fishes)
er looks like er (is, are)
dyr is the same (animal)
sem looks like som (that)
í is i (in)
og is og (and)
með is med (with)
en looks like it might be men (but)
flestir looks like flere (many)

So thanks to that I can generally understand that it means something like "Fishes are (something) animals that something in water (probably) and something with something. Many fishes are with cold blood, but some(?) something (fish name) and (fish name) are with hot blood. Of fishes are found about(?) 29,000 kinds (I assume that's what that word means) so/thus there are something something animals.

And that's being nowhere close to fluent in Norwegian. It's a pretty safe bet to say that if you're interested in Icelandic but find it a bit too challenging at the moment / can't find enough good material to learn the language / are too far away / etc., learning another Scandinavian language first could be a good idea, just don't think that you'll be able to understand Icelandic without putting in some serious time there as well.

One fun thing you can do to get a tiny bit of an idea of what Icelandic looks like to a speaker of a Scandinavian language (it's not perfect by any means but still kind of fun to try out) is to do the following. First take a text written in Icelandic like this:
Margar tegundir fiska (aðallega uppsjávarfiskar) færa sig reglulega milli búsvæða; Daglega færa þessar tegundir sig milli yfirborðs og botns og árlega synda þær vegalengdir sem geta verið frá nokkrum metrum að nokkrum hundruðum kílómetra. Álar færa sig um set á nokkrum árum. Oftast eru þessar göngur farnar til æxlunarsvæða eða ráðast af æti. Nokkrar tegundir túnfiska ganga árlega norður og suður eftir hafinu eftir hitastigi sjávar.
Fiskar eru flokkaðir eftir göngumynstri í sjógandandi fiska sem ganga milli sjávar og ferskvatns, fljótagöngufiska sem ganga milli ferskvatnskerfa, t.d. úr á í vatn og öfugt, og úthafsgöngufiska sem ganga milli búsvæða í sjó. Sjógangandi fiskar skiptast aftur í vatnagöngufiska sem lifa í sjó en æxlast í fersku vatni, sjógöngufiska sem lifa í ám en æxlast í sjó, og tvíátta fiska sem flytja milli sjávar og ferskvatns einhvern tíma á æviskeiðinu, en ekki til að æxlast, heldur venjulega af líkamlegum ástæðum (vegna þroskaferils fisksins).
We're going to put this through Google's translator which is only available for Swedish, Norwegian and Danish (no Icelandic) so first we'll have to remove all the accented characters that don't exist in those three languages and replace ð and þ with d:
Margar tegundir fiska (adallega uppsjavarfiskar) færa sig reglulega milli busvæda; Daglega færa dessar tegundir sig milli yfirbords og botns og arlega synda dær vegalengdir sem geta verid fra nokkrum metrum ad nokkrum hundrudum kilometra. Alar færa sig um set a nokkrum arum. Oftast eru dessar göngur farnar til æxlunarsvæda eda radast af æti. Nokkrar tegundir tunfiska ganga arlega nordur og sudur eftir hafinu eftir hitastigi sjavar.

Fiskar eru flokkadir eftir göngumynstri i sjogandandi fiska sem ganga milli sjavar og ferskvatns, fljotagöngufiska sem ganga milli ferskvatnskerfa, t.d. ur a i vatn og öfugt, og uthafsgöngufiska sem ganga milli busvæda i sjo. Sjogangandi fiskar skiptast aftur i vatnagöngufiska sem lifa i sjo en æxlast i fersku vatni, sjogöngufiska sem lifa i am en æxlast i sjo, og tviatta fiska sem flytja milli sjavar og ferskvatns einhvern tima a æviskeidinu, en ekki til ad æxlast, heldur venjulega af likamlegum astædum (vegna droskaferils fisksins).
Now we tell Google that this is Norwegian and see what happens when it turns this "Norwegian" into English:
Margins tegundir fish (aDale uppsjavarfiskar) færa sig reglulega milliseconds busvæda; Daglega færa dessa tegundir sig milliseconds yfirbords and bottom and Årleg sin dær vegalengdir sem geta verid from nokkrum metrum ad nokkrum hundrudum kilometers. Alara færa sig um set a nokkrum aRuma. Usually eru dessa göngur farner to æxlunarsvæda EDA radast af æti. Nokkrar tegundir tuna Ganga Annual nordur and sudur eftir hafinu eftir hitastigi sjavar.

Fiskaregatan flokkadir eru eftir göngumynstri in sjogandandi fish sem Ganga milliseconds sjavar and freshwater, fljotagöngufiska sem Ganga milliseconds ferskvatnskerfa, td ur ai water and öfugt, and uthafsgöngufiska sem Ganga milliseconds busvæda in the sea. Sjogangandi fiskar skip key Aftur in vatnagöngufiska sem lifa in the sea a æxlast in fersku vatni, sjogöngufiska sem lifa i am a æxlast in the sea, and tviatta fish sem flytja milliseconds sjavar and freshwater einhvern tima a æviskeidinu, en ekki til ad æxlast, heldur venjulega af likamlegum astædum ('s behalf droskaferils fisksins).
Then use that with a Danish to English translation:
Margins tegundir fish (Ådal uppsjavarfiskar) færa themselves reglulega milliseconds busvæda; Daglega færa dessa tegundir in milliseconds yfirbords and bottom and Årleg its secondary vegalengdir sem geta verid from nokkrum metrum ad nokkrum hundrudum kilometers. Alara færa um itself set a nokkrum aRuma. Usually eru dessa göngur farne two æxlunarsvæda EDA radast of æti. Nokkrar tegundir tuna Ganga Annual nordur and sudur eftir hafinu eftir hitastigi sjavar.

Fiskaregatan flock Kadir eru eftir göngumynstri in sjogandandi fish sem Ganga milliseconds sjavar and freshwater, fljotagöngufiska sem Ganga milliseconds ferskvatnskerfa, td ur ai water and öfugt, and uthafsgöngufiska sem Ganga milliseconds busvæda in the sea. Sjogangandi fiskar skip key Aftur in vatnagöngufiska sem lifa in the sea a æxlast in fersku vatni, sjogöngufiska sem lifa i am a æxlast in the sea, and fish tviatta sem flytja milliseconds sjavar and freshwater einhvern Tima a æviskeidinu, a ekki ad æxlast, heldur venjulega of likamlegum astædum ( 's behalf droskaferils fisksins).
And then finally Swedish to English:
Margins tegundir fish (Ådalen uppsjavarfiskar) fær themselves reglulega milli seconds busvæda; Daglega fær these tegundir in milli seconds yfirbords and bottom and Årleg its secondary vegalengdir sem Geta Veridt from nokkrum metrum ad nokkrum hundrudum kilometers. Alar fær um itself set a nokkrum aRuma. Usually these ERUs göngur Farner two æxlunarsvæda EDA radast of æti. Nokkrar tegundir tuna Ganga Annual nordur and sudur eftir hafinu eftir hitastigi SHUFFLE.

Fiskaregatan flock Kadir ERUs eftir göngumynstri in sjogandandi fish sem Ganga milli seconds SHUFFLE and fresh water, fljotagöngufiska sem Ganga milli seconds ferskvatnskerfa, td from ai water and öfugt, and uthafsgöngufiska sem Ganga milli seconds busvæda in the sea. Sjogangandi fish skip key Aftur in vatnagöngufiska sem lifa in the sea a æxlast in fersku vatni, sjogöngufiska sem lifa i am a æxlast in the sea, and fish tviatta sem flytja milli seconds SLOVENLY and freshwater einhvern HAPPEN a æviskeidinu, a ekki ad æxlast, HELDUR venjulega of likamlegum astædum ( 's behalf droskaferils fish themselves).

Okay, that's a bit of a mess near the end but it does illustrate a little bit how Icelandic looks to someone that knows a Scandinavian language in that there's a lot that is impossible to understand but interspersed with parts that make perfect sense ("in the sea" for example) though note that comprehension would still be better than that due to being able to recognize words like sem as som (that) and dessar as disse (these), which is a kind of linguistic instinct that doesn't get picked up by an automatic translator.


Finally, Scandinavians will often tell you that even though their languages are quite similar and there's a kind of an accepted common Scandinavian tongue, they will often default to English if that turns out to be an easier method, so if you're a Norwegian speaker in Iceland and don't know any Icelandic but do know English then you'll end up using good old rock-steady English instead of trying to get by with a kind of pan-Scandinavian mishmash that might or might not work. Your Norwegian or Danish or Swedish will definitely help you learn the language in a shorter period of time if you intend to stay in Iceland for the long term, but it's certainly not a kind of pan-Scandinavian linguistic pass that everyone can understand.

Anything to add or correct to this? Please let me know in the comments section below and I'll update the post accordingly. Bless bless!

6 comments:

Anonymous said...

That's very interesting and I expected that Norwegians wouldn't really understand that much Icelandic without having learnt it.

Anonymous said...

I suspect it's easier for an Icelander to understand a Norwegian than the other way around.

Norwegian guy said...

Lots of other easily recognisable words for a native Norwegian speaker here:

hrygg = rygg = back
which makes me think hryggdýr must mean virveldyr = vertebrates
dvelja = dvele, clearly cognates but with a somewhat different meaning
vatni = vann/vatn = water
anda = ånde = breathe
I than guess that tálknum means gjeller = gills

This sentence is pretty similar in all three languages:

Flestir fiskar eru með kalt blóð = (De) fleste fisker er med kaldt blod = Most fish are with cold blood

except that one would rather use "har" and "have" in stead of "er med" and "are with" in Norwegian and English respectially.

sumar = somme = some
háfiska = hai = shark
túnfiska = tunfisk = tuna (fish)
heitt = hett/heitt = hot
af = av = of
finnast = fins = cognate with find, have to use "there are" in English here
yfir = over = over, but have to used "more than" in English
tegundir = no idea what this means, but from the context I can guess " = art = species"
svo = så = so
þeir = de = they
fjölbreyttasti = no idea
hópur = hop

I can only guess from the rest of the sentence and what I know about fishes that:
fjölbreyttasti hópur = den største gruppa blant = the largest group among

In this case I think I was able to understand the Icelandic text fairly well. But it's usually not that simple. If the number of unrecognisable words are to large, or the meaning of the recognisable cognates too different, it is much harder to grasp the meaning of the text. And because the Icelandic pronunciation is very different from the Norwegian, its even harder to understand spoken Icelandic than written.

Learn Canadian French Online said...

I think the Vikings will rule the world again! Only next time they may be speaking English. (smile)

Hopefully I'll get my language learning software ramped up enough so that we can add small languages like Icelandic.

I would like to help people learn it. Scandinavians are wonderful !



Brent Van Arsdell

Anonymous said...

That's very interesting and I expected that Norwegians wouldn't really understand that much Icelandic without having learnt it.

Norwegian guy said...

Lots of other easily recognisable words for a native Norwegian speaker here:

hrygg = rygg = back
which makes me think hryggdýr must mean virveldyr = vertebrates
dvelja = dvele, clearly cognates but with a somewhat different meaning
vatni = vann/vatn = water
anda = ånde = breathe
I than guess that tálknum means gjeller = gills

This sentence is pretty similar in all three languages:

Flestir fiskar eru með kalt blóð = (De) fleste fisker er med kaldt blod = Most fish are with cold blood

except that one would rather use "har" and "have" in stead of "er med" and "are with" in Norwegian and English respectially.

sumar = somme = some
háfiska = hai = shark
túnfiska = tunfisk = tuna (fish)
heitt = hett/heitt = hot
af = av = of
finnast = fins = cognate with find, have to use "there are" in English here
yfir = over = over, but have to used "more than" in English
tegundir = no idea what this means, but from the context I can guess " = art = species"
svo = så = so
þeir = de = they
fjölbreyttasti = no idea
hópur = hop

I can only guess from the rest of the sentence and what I know about fishes that:
fjölbreyttasti hópur = den største gruppa blant = the largest group among

In this case I think I was able to understand the Icelandic text fairly well. But it's usually not that simple. If the number of unrecognisable words are to large, or the meaning of the recognisable cognates too different, it is much harder to grasp the meaning of the text. And because the Icelandic pronunciation is very different from the Norwegian, its even harder to understand spoken Icelandic than written.

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